Speakers:
Toshiro Mutoh - Board Chairman of Daiwa Institute of Research Ltd.
Yuji Miyamoto - Chairman, Miyamoto Institute of Asian Research, Former Ambassador to China
Yasushi Akashi - Chairman of the International House in Japan, Former United Nations Under-Secretary General
Facilitator: Yasushi Kudo (President of The Genron NPO)

KUDO The "Tokyo-Beijing Forum" will be held in October. Here, we discuss what it is that we hope to realize through this dialogue between Japan and China.

The Meaning of the Dialogue is that Dialogue can be Held Even amid Aggravated Japan-China Relations

MIYAMOTO: What we are feeling now after this past year in regards to the Senkaku/Daiyou Islands dispute is that the awareness and views on the same issue differ between Japan and China. Japan and China are important neighboring countries that must maintain lasting, good relations with one another into the future. Both countries, however, must seriously reflect upon the fact that an unbelievable discrepancy in perception has occurred within this relationship and that there is a need to prevent this from recurring in the future.

In a time of decreasing civilian dialogue between Japan and China, the "Tokyo-Beijing Forum" is one of the very few opportunities for influential people from both countries to gather together and exchange opinions. Making good use of this rare opportunity and exchanging straightforward opinions on what we should do in the future will likely be the greatest purpose and significance of this dialogue.

MUTOH: As Mr. Miyamoto just pointed out, relations between Japan and China are currently very strained, even looking at the long history of Japan-China relations. I cannot help but feel that things are developing in such a way that the people of both countries are being influenced by the media and political statements made in both countries are encouraging prejudice and misunderstandings. And I feel that it is this distrust of one another that has made it difficult for the situation to be controlled.

So I believe the important thing is how we are to develop a mutual understanding. While mutual understanding between intellectuals and high-level people do not seem to be at odds with one another, this is not so with the general populace. And, one aspect of politics is that it represents the perception of the people. So even if politicians understand the need to improve Japan-China relations, they tend to be compelled to repeat strong, forceful words.

We must thus develop our mutual understanding and speak out against politics in order to resolve this situation. And for this, we need knowledge. What this year's "Tokyo-Beijing Forum" requires is this knowledge. For both countries, it is important that amicable relations and peace be an obvious presumption in advancing discussions and resolving matters.

AKASHI: I feel that many people in both Japan and China are aware of the fact that Japan-China relations are currently very strained. In regards to the territorial dispute over Senkaku/Daiyou Islands, as long as both countries continue to claim sovereignty, it will all end up in a zero sum game. From the larger standpoint of so-called strategic reciprocation, the areas where mutual benefits coincide - in various aspects from politics to economics to culture - are very broad.

I feel that there are many worried people in both countries thinking "something must be done!" to resolve this situation, where both countries are at a loss as to how to lower their raised fists. This is why it is important and meaningful for intellectuals and those at the forefront of society to meet together and hold an open discussion under such conditions.

KUDO: The other day, there was talk that Prime Minister Abe had a chat with the President of the People's Republic of China, Xi Jinping, at the G20. Current Japan-China relations are unfortunately such that both governments cannot readily communicate with one another. How should we understand the meaning of civilian dialogue under such conditions?

Discussion One Step Ahead of the Government, Possible Only through Civilian Dialogue

MIYAMOTO: I was in Shanghai for a week last week and heard many Chinese intellectuals saying, "Things can't stay the way they are. What has made Japan-China relations so aggravated?" Instead of the single opinion that "Japanese behavior is inexcusable," I also started to hear the opinion from the Chinese side that "China should also scrutinize itself a bit more objectively."

The Japanese media has also started to report on such Chinese opinions and not just the ones of those who raise their fists saying "Japanese behavior is inexcusable." I feel that we have finally entered a turning point in both countries' societies.

Because the "Tokyo-Beijing Forum" is a stage for civilian dialogue, opinions can be exchanged more freely than in discussions held by the government. I hope that discussions will be held on how to respond to issues and act in the future, keeping in mind the aforementioned signs of a good change in both societies.

The Foundations of Dialogue Can Be Constructed By Discussing Economic Issues

MUTOH: It is no exaggeration to say that there has never been a time when the importance of civilian dialogue has been as vital as it is today. What this is is that when political relations between countries cannot progress as desired, the channel of civilian dialogue begins to function in an extremely effective manner.

The economy lies mostly in the hands of the civilian sector. Furthermore, the Chinese and Japanese economies are integrated in a very organic way and relations can no longer be severed from the perspective of the mutual countries' importance as a trading partner and in the supply chain, as well as from all other aspects. This fact is fully understood by civilian economists. While popular feelings between both countries have become aggravated due to the Senkaku/Daiyou Islands dispute, the economy has continued to move without a moment's delay.

This economy actually carries various problems both in Japan and in China. In the economy, there are issues to be dealt with at any time and in any country.

There is now a new regime in China, and the issue of the economic policies in this new regime has begun to be covered widely. This is because China grew and succeeded largely during the Jiang Zemin and Hu Jintao regimes but, at the same time, it envelops various problems like the issue of class differences arising from the progress of urbanization and the issue of shadow banking. The Chinese are fully aware of the fact that they embody considerable contradiction and are asking themselves what they should do with them.

Japan is now gradually changing with Abenomics, however it is still unclear whether this will fundamentally strengthen the Japanese economy and challenges still remain. Discussing the issues faced by both countries without reserve is extremely meaningful from the standpoint of economic rationality. Talking over these issues is a way to rise above the conflict over the Senkaku/Daiyou Islands and reach a quick agreement.

Even amid such aggravated conditions, both countries have managed to maintain relations through economic interests. This year's "Tokyo-Beijing Forum" includes a number of sessions and from the standpoint of the economy - which I have the greatest interest in - I anticipate that it will function as an extremely effective channel for dialogue especially because we are experiencing such difficult times.

Dialogue for Building the Foundations of a Political Relationship

AKASHI: Japan-China relations have continued in a strained state this past year due to the conflict surrounding a small island called Senkaku/Daiyou Islands. From a very wide perspective, China was full of confidence after the world's second and third largest economies switched place, but this very large body called China has also come to face not only its economy but the problems of urbanization and class differences and is very concerned over such issues. Japan has also gone through 15 or 20 years of severe recession and is now starting to gain back its energy. Thus, I feel that the time is now ripe for both countries to speak freely without being tied to the inferiority complexes that each may hold. If, in order to uphold their honor, neither country's government can take the initiative, is it not up to the civilians with no such concern to work progressively towards creating such an environment? I feel that the opportunity for us to create an environment in which the governments can negotiate with one another is arising from the civilian side in both countries.

KUDO: There is only a little over a month until this year's "Tokyo-Beijing Forum," and we hope to do whatever we can to make this dialogue succeed.